**** Pro-Hormones FAQ ****

[DutchMuscle]

Prohormone FAQ
By
pogue
Special thanks to Tkarrde &
roobear

Included here are some of the most common questions asked about prohormones. This has been compiled into information based on some
scientific studies, but mostly from user feedback after years of success using prohormones. Please keep in mind that this document might have some errors and you will need to do much more reading before you decide whether or not use prohormones.

1. What are prohormones?

Prohormones are synthetically manufactured compounds which convert to anabolic hormones via enzymes in the liver; hormone precursors. They are commonly abbreviated as PHs.


2. What are they used for?

Prohormones are used by athletes looking to increase size, strength, endurance, reduce recovery time or add lean body mass. They are most often used for increasing muscle mass or reducing bodyfat levels. Life extension groups are also increasingly using prohormones as a means of hormone replacement therapy, as an alternative to prescription drug use.

3. Do they have side effects?

Yes.
Prohormones can have the same side effects as anabolic steroids, and are dependant upon the user as to which side effects one might experience. Some side effects are acne, hair loss, breast tissue enlargement, and prostate swelling.
The potential for these side effects does exist, but it can be reduced if one uses proper precautionary measures (see below). Generally, if a person is genetically predisposed to a side effect it will occur (i.e.: if someone has a history of male pattern baldness in the family, it could be assumed that this could be a side effect experienced if certain prohormones are used)

4. Which prohormones convert to which compounds?

Here is a list:

4 androstenediol (4AD or 4diol) converts to testosterone

19 nor-4-androstenediol (Nordiol) converts to nortestosterone or
nandrolone

1 androstenediol (1AD) converts to 1-testosterone (dihydroboldenone)

1,4 androstenedione and 1,4 androstenediol (1,4andro or Boldione) converts to boldenone and slightly converts to estrogen (the diol version does not convert to estrogen)

5 alpha androstenediol (5AA) converts to DHT

3 beta androstenediol (3 beta) converts to DHT

3 alpha androstenediol (3 alpha) converts to DHT

4 hydroxy androstenedione converts to 4 hydroxy testosterone
which is an aromatize inhibitor (blocks formation of estrogen)

7-KETO-DHEA does not convert to any active anabolic compounds
1-testosterone (1-test) is already an active compound and does not need to undergo conversion


Compounds you want to avoid.

5 androstenediol (5AD or 5diol) converts to testosterone at a very low rate and is an estrogen agonist

4 androstenedione (andro) converts to testosterone and estrone
(estrogen)

19 nor-4-androstenedione (norandro) converts to nortestosterone
and estrogen

DHEA converts to androstenedione and can be converted to all
other hormones

Pregnenolone converts to progesterone and can be converted to
all other hormones

5. How do prohormones work?

Basically, when they are administered into the system, they are broken down in the liver and converted to their target hormone via certain enzymes.
There have been a number of quotes describing how much of the hormone is converted, but there is no definitive answer as to how much of the prohormone is converted into its target active.
Once a certain amount is created, the enzymes used for conversion
become saturated and no more can be converted. This is true with all the
compounds, except for 1-testosterone which really isn’t a prohormone.

6. What do the target hormones do?

Each hormone works in different ways once it is converted, but essentially it attaches to an androgen receptor in the cells of your body. This in turn increases nitrogen retention and protein synthesis, meaning that your body is in a constant anabolic state (assuming you are continuously supplying your body with the hormone). Here is a brief description of each hormone and what it does.

Testosterone is the primary male hormone responsible for development of the sex organs and muscle growth. Testosterone is both anabolic
and androgenic—anabolic meaning it causes muscle growth and androgenic meaning that it causes development of secondary sex characteristics.
Testosterone converts to both DHT and estrogen in its parent form. Testosterone is often the primary hormone used on a cycle of steroids. It is a mass builder, and will often help with unwanted androgenic side effects of other steroids.
Although conversion to estrogen can cause many unwanted side effects on its own, testosterone should generally be the base to any cycle.

Nandrolone is an anabolic hormone, with not as much androgenic potential. It attaches to the androgen receptor with greater affinity than testosterone, but can cause a loss of libido and generally stays active in the system much longer than does testosterone. This is the “safest” choice for users who want to avoid most common side effects.

DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the primary androgenic
hormone in the body. It is responsible for increases in strength, as well as most of the unwanted side effects common with steroids. DHT is converted from testosterone via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DHT receptors are high in the scale, skin and prostate; high DTH levels are the most common cause of prostate swelling, acne, and male pattern baldness.

Boldenone is a veterinary hormone, which is commercially sold as Equipoise. Equipoise is known as an alternative to nandrolone when using steroids. It provides an increase in appetite, with some fat burning potential. Boldenone converts to estrogen at about half the rate of testosterone. Those who are looking to avoid some of the
stronger androgenic side effects also commonly use it. 1-testosterone is the 5 alpha reduced version of Boldenone.

7. How do I take prohormones?

There are three common routes of administration for prohormones. These are usually based on their efficacy (i.e. how much is
absorbed). Since the liver and stomach lining breaks down prohormones rather efficiently, taking them orally is the poorest route of administration. Most users prefer transdermal (topical) administration. When taken this way, you apply it to your skin and it will continue being absorbed over a period of 12 hours or so. Cyclodextrins or sublingual methods are also commonly used, which is where the prohormones are dissolved under the tongue.
This also has a high level of absorption and works well. There are also some products on the market which are sold as “intraoral” or “intranasal”. These are meant to be sprayed into the nostril prior to your workout, and are generally only meant as preworkout boosts, not for a cycle of prohormones.

Some manufactures have started selling prohormones in oral form with an ester attached. This, in theory, will allow it to be slowly absorbed for many hours similar to the other methods, but to my knowledge, there have been no studies demonstrating that this method increases bioavailability.

8. What is a cycle? What does stacking mean?

A cycle is generally used to describe a length of time and common dosage when taking prohormones. Stacking means taking more than one
prohormone at a time to increase gains or reduce side effects. Common cycle lengths are 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, and 8 weeks. I recommend 4 week cycles, which seem to give the most gains with fewer sides. I would not recommend going beyond 8 weeks.

Common stacks are 4AD and Nordiol, 1AD and 4AD, 1-test
and 4AD, etc. You will notice most everything is stacked with 4AD. This is
because testosterone gives you a bit more leverage, providing good gains and overall anabolism, with reduced androgenic side effects. Each of the prohormones can be taken alone, or taken together. The choice is yours and should be made from reading this text, and all the user feedback from this board and others.
Research, research, research!


9. What is post cycle therapy?

Post cycle therapy is a tried and true method of helping to
solidify your gains by raising natural testosterone levels and lowering estrogen levels once your cycle is over. When you add external hormones to your body, your own natural production becomes suppressed.
Your body attempts to compensate your endocrine system by stabilizing the other hormones, which results in an increase in estrogen. Once you quit supplying your body with external hormones,
your natural testosterone will be low and estrogen will be high. Therefore,
anti-estrogens are taken to halt the manufacture of estrogen in the body. This will result in higher testosterone levels, hence making it easier to keep your gains.
Post cycle therapy should begin the next day after the prohormones have
stopped being taken. Common post cycle therapy drugs are listed below with dosages:

6OXO
6oxo is an aromatize inhibitor sold by Ergopharm.
It is the best over the counter anti-estrogen available for post cycle use.
Week 1 – 600mg daily in two divided doses, morning and night
Week 2-3 – 400mg daily
Week 4 – 300mg daily

Formasin/Formastat/Aromazap
Note: 4 hydroxy androstenedione acts as a weak androgen and can cause further suppression of natural testosterone, but can be used post cycle.
Dosages should be 250mg a day for the first two weeks, followed by anywhere from 50-250mg a day for the next two.

Clomid
Clomid is a prescription fertility drug, but is highly available and highly effective at blocking estrogen and increasing LH output.
Day 1 – 300mg
Day 2-11 100mg
Day 11-21 50mg
OR
150mg daily for 2 weeks
100mg daily for 2 weeks

Nolvadex
Nolvadex is also a prescription, which is highly available and blocks estrogen at the receptor.
Week 1-2 – 40mg daily
Week 2-4 – 20mg daily

There are other prescription anti-estrogens available, but these two will be fine unless side effects arise, so we won’t discuss the other options in this FAQ.

Other common post cycle favorites including high doses of flax oil,
ZMA, tribulus and an ECA stack coupled with reduced training volume and
increased calories (500 or so above maintenance). But, it is very
important to use an anti-estrogen for post cycle. I would never recommend not using one unless the cycle length is 2 weeks or less.

10. What dosages should I use?

Dosages are different for the different routes of
administration and for the different hormones taken. Here is a basic outline of each prohormone along with general cycles used, based on user feedback.
For your first cycle, I recommend sticking to a lighter dosing schedule for 2-4 weeks.
Note: This is a general guideline. Dosages for any cycle can be higher or
lower, and some products may incorporate one or more of these compounds so that the below amount might not be able to be achieved. This is just a basic outline and is far from completely accurate.

1AD
1AD is by far the most popular prohormone. It is considered to be the most effective taken orally, and has resounding user feedback. It is best stacked with 4AD to reduce side effects, the most common of which include lethargy and reduced libido.
1AD should not be used transdermally, and could be used sublingually, although there are few products with this delivery system used. 1AD is commonly stacked with 4AD and shouldn’t be stacked with nordiol, or the DHT precursors.

4-6 week cycles are best taken at anywhere from 300-900mg daily. Take in divided doses throughout the day to keep blood levels elevated.

4AD
4AD is the next best. It is almost always
used with other hormones due also to its resounding user feedback and adding large amounts of mass from increases in testosterone and estrogen. 4AD can be taken orally, transdermally, or sublingually.
2-6 week cycles are generally used. 4AD can be stacked with just about anything.

Oral:
300-1500mg daily. Oral is probably the worst way to take this, but if you are simply looking to reduce sides of 1AD, etc – it works. Take in divided doses to ensure elevated blood levels.

Transdermal:
400-600mg daily with two applications in morning at night.

Sublingual:
Probably 15-50mg at a time, 3 times or more daily in divided doses.

Nordiol
Nordiol is the best prohormone for use by people who want to avoid the common androgenic sides associated with the other hormones. Can be taken orally, transdermally or sublingually. 2-4 week cycles
recommended. Heavily suppressive, despite what literature says. Nordiol is commonly stacked with 4ad for mass, or 1,4andro for cutting or users wanting reduced sides effects.

Oral:
500-800mg daily in divided doses

Transdermal:
500-800mg daily in split doses morning and night

Sublingual:
15-50mg in divided doses

1,4andro
1,4andro is renowned for causing appetite stimulation. It’s low in estrogenic sides and good for cutting or bulking. Some people claim that transdermal administration works well, but the feedback I’ve seen has been poor. Oral seems to be the route of administration, and the dione version appears to work better than the diol. 1,4andro can be stacked with just about anything. Taking 1,4andro for less than 4 weeks is generally a waste because it takes quite a while for the effects to kick
in.

Oral:
300-600mg daily in divided doses.

Transdermal:
N/A


Sublingual:
N/A

1-testosterone
1-test is the active form of 1AD and is best taken transdermally or sublingually, although oral products suspended in oil with an ether attached also have very good feedback. 1-test is best stacked with 4AD for mass or 1,4andro for cutting.

Oral:
150-300mg when taken in ethergel product in divided doses

Transdermal:
200-500mg daily or more in split doses

Sublingual:
Not sure


5AA/3 beta/3
alpha
These all convert to DHT at different rates and have slightly
different properties. I’m a little hazy on all of them, except that 5 alpha can compete with estrogen for receptor activity when converted to DHT. Some people have used 5AA in an oral product as a preworkout boost, while others have used 3 alpha for a “hardening” agent.

Thanks to roobear for the below info
on DHT precursors


quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3-Alpha/Beta
3-alpha/beta will illicit exactly the same anabolic/androgenic
responses, differing only in their conversion rates - 3-alpha 43% / 3-beta 9%
respectively. The bioavailability of 3-alpha/beta is purported to be relatively
low (by Bill himself) and thus would serve well to be administered
transdermally. These compounds are best used in conjunction with other
compounds, preferably of an anabolic nature (ie Nordiol, 1,4 Andro and 4-AD) -
inducing drastic increases in strength, vascularity and muscle
hardness.

3-Alpha
Oral:
100-300mg (lower dosage being more of a
"stacking" quantity)

Transdermal:
50-150mg (lower dosage being more of
a "stacking" quantity)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3-Beta
Oral:
Outdated - use
3-alpha

Transdermal:
200-500mg(lower dosage being more of a "stacking"
quantity)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




7-Keto-DHEA

This is slightly out of the scope of this FAQ, but is generally used for cutting. This has been shown to increase thyroid output and lower cortisol levels, without converting to target hormones. Used for cutting stacked with other thermogenic compounds for 4-6 weeks.

Oral:
200mg in two divided doses

Transdermal:
100mg daily

11. Are prohormones legal?

Yes, currently they are legal in the US and some other countries. Please visit href="http://www.usfa.biz" target=_blank>www.usfa.biz and write your politicians to ensure they stay that way. Prohormones are not tested for in job drug tests, but they are probably banned and can potentially show up on a drug test for athletics. Check your local laws for specific
information.

12. Who should use prohormones?

Mature adults above the age of 21 looking for increases in lean muscle mass or decreases in bodyfat levels. Most veterans will advise using prohormones after several years of training, to ensure you have a good feel for proper diet, nutrition and supplementation. Using prohormones under the age of 18 is a very bad idea; it can result in the closure of growth plates, thus resulting in permanently stunted growth; it can also result in potentially serious endocrine system problems. Those with potential for or already enlarged prostate or those susceptible to male pattern baldness should not use prohormones; nor should
prohormones be used by people with heart conditions, who currently have
gynocomastia, or have liver or kidney problems. If you have any doubts, see a doctor before using these compounds.

13. Can I take prohormones along with steroids?

This is a hotly debated subject. Yes, you can – but why? If you have access to steroids, why would you bother with prohormones?
Anabolic steroids are already hormones in their current form and require no conversion – hence, they are more powerful, albeit illegal.
The only compound I would say that you could take with any other steroid would be

1-testosterone, which would be an equivalent of Primobolan or Equipose. The only other thing I can think of would be taking 4AD with Fina to reduce side effects. There is more information about this on boards like Anabolicminds or Animal’s board.

14. How can I avoid some of the potential side effects associated with prohormones?

There are certain ancillary compounds available to treat potential side effects of prohormones.
Below is a list I compiled which is pretty basic and should help clarify some of the issues of side effects.

Prostate Issues

The prostate is an organ at the neck of the bladder where it joins the urethra. It is responsible for controlling urination and ejaculation. Common symptoms of prostate problems are frequent or difficult urination, dribbling when urinating, erection difficulty, and pain in that general area. Either a rise in estrogen or DHT levels from increased testosterone, etc., probably causes this. If you have ongoing prostate issues, it’s best not to use prohormones, though potentially the use of nordiol might be acceptable.

Herbal treatments:
Saw Palmetto Extract – Usual dosage is 160mg several times daily
Beta sisterol or plant phytosterols – 300mg several times daily
Flax seed oil – anywhere from
5-20 tblspoons daily

Prescription Treatments:
Proscar/Propecia – blocks the conversion of testosterone to DHT. Ineffective with DHT derived hormones (1-test, 1ad, 5aa, etc)
Spironolactone – an anti androgen. Best not used for this, but used topically (more below)

Acne
Acne is very common on prohormone cycles, and can range from mild to moderate. It will go away once post cycle treatment concludes, or within a few weeks of cession of the product. The best way to treat acne is with the soaps available at your local grocery store or pharmacy. Just pick up some Neutrogena or whatever and scrub your face twice a day or use the body wash.

Hair Loss

Hair loss is caused by increased levels of DHT. Since DHT receptors are heavy on the top of the scalp, some people will notice a lot of
shedding or a receding hairline on some cycles. There are various treatments for this; the most common is topical Spironolactone available from Nizoralman or Dr. Lee. The 2% will work as a preventative measure, while the 5% will attempt to help grow some hair back. There are also other methods, such as azelaic acid or Nizoral shampoo, but they are not proven to be effective as spiro is.If you
are concerned you are losing your hair and are currently taking something to help prevent it, prohormones are probably not the best idea. If still interested in using prohormones, Nordiol might be the best option available to you.

Gyno

Gynocomastia, or development of the breast tissue, is sometimes common among aromatizing (converting to estrogen)
prohormones. The first symptoms are puffy and itchy or swollen nipples. If you start to notice this while on a cycle, you need to start taking Nolvadex immediately. Formasin/Aromazap/Formastat might work, but 6oxo is not going to help this in most cases, so Nolvadex should ALWAYS be on hand for this situation. It is highly available, not very expensive, and not illegal to posses, so there is no reason not to have it. Don’t wait and order some when you start to get the first signs of gyno, because Nolvadex needs to be taken as soon as symptoms of gyno appear. Start taking 40mg a day until the symptoms subside, and you may want to continue to take 10mg the rest of your cycle as precaution.

Liver/Kidney

Prohormones have to pass through your liver in order to convert, no matter what the route of administration, so higher levels of liver enzymes in the blood is common during a cycle. Many steroid users take Milk Thistle and ALA at high doses to combat this, and if you are concerned it would be a good idea to take one or both of these to help that. Problems with kidneys have not been an issue to my knowledge, but steroid users
will often also take cranberry juice extract to help with that.

Depression

Some people report mild or moderate depression, especially post cycle when using 6oxo. This can be cured with prescription drugs such as Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, etc. It can also be fought with herbal supplements such as St Johns Wort, 5-HTP or Sam-E. If you go with the herbal route, St Johns Wort should be 300mg 2-3 times daily, 5-HTP at 100mg
several times daily, or 100-200mg of Sam-E once daily. You can combine all three if depression is extreme, otherwise my pick would be St. Johns
Wort.

Testicular Atrophy

Many users report testicular shrinkage during a cycle. The testes will come back to full size once you start post cycle. If they do not, then it’s recommended you take Clomid and possibly even HCG to help restore them.

Sleeplessness
Some people report having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep on a cycle. My recommendation is to take 1mg to 3mg of melatonin 30 minutes before bed time.
Some other options are Valerian root, GABA, Tylenol PM or Kava Kava (potentially stressful on the liver).

15. What kind of training should I use when using prohormones?

Everyone has their own opinion on this, and you should use whatever works for use. Most people put an emphasis on higher volume
while using prohormones, and you can add more isolation sets and workout more frequently due to increased recovery time. But don’t overtrain. Just because
you’re using prohormones doesn’t mean you need to train daily or twice daily. Also, doing cardio on prohormones is fine. I recommend 2-3 times weekly of 20 minutes, if at all.

16. How should I eat when on prohormones?

Try and eat 1-2g of protein per pound of body weight.
Try and eat 500-1000 calories above maintenance, or more if bulking. Generally, standard nutrition guidelines should be followed. If cutting, try and eat 10-12 calories per pound of bodyweight, while keeping protein high.

17. Should I take any other supplements while using prohormones?
Take whatever you normally take. If you take creatine, it’s fine to continue taking it while using prohormones. Some people prefer to save it for post cycle to help retain some of the water weight. Otherwise, the usual stuff like a multivitamin, a good protein powder and flax seed oil should be standard issue for any athlete.

18. What are some good manufacturers of prohormone products?

My personal picks would be Molecular Nutrition, Ergopharm, Avant Labs, BDC Nutrition, San, Syntrax or 1 fast 400. These are stand up companies that generally pump out quality products.

19. Can I make my own prohormone transdermal/oral/sublingual?

Yes, there are several companies that offer prohormone powders in bulk such as Kilosports, Beyond a Century and 1 fast 400. You can buy
powders from them and make your own capsules, cyclodextrins or transdermals easily. Visit Anabolicminds or Avant Labs message boards for a wealth of how-to information.

20. Can I inject prohormones?

This is out of the scope of this FAQ, but yes you can. The results have been mixed, there have been some questions of products purity used in injectables, and there is a question of whether or not using them for this purpose is legal.

21. Is there anything I should know about transdermal delivery?

Transdermals should be applied twelve hours apart. It is a good idea to apply them after showering and to rotate application spots daily. Apply lotion to application spots not in use. This is a good way to avoid a rash from the topical, which is a common side effect reported by users.
Some prefer to scrub themselves with a luffa or sponge before applying them to remove the first layer of dead skin cells for optimal delivery. It is also a good idea to wear latex gloves when applying, and wash your hands when you are finished to avoid getting the solution into your eyes or other sensitive areas.
Keep in mind that high amounts of sweating or getting the area wet too soon after application will wash it off, so it might have to be reapplied if this occurs.

22. Is there anything I should know about oral/liquid delivery?

There are many products on the market with liquid delivery systems. You will need to drink these, and most of them taste badly. Just try
and get them down as quickly as possible, or mix with another flavored liquid to help the taste. Also keep in mind that liquid and oral delivery methods are generally less effective. Even if the product is esterfied, it is still a good idea to take it several times daily in small divided doses to ensure saturated blood levels at all times.

23. Is there anything I should know about sublingual delivery?

Try and let the product dissolve under your tongue and do not eat or drink anything for around 10-20 minutes after you take
the product. As with orals, you will need to take it several times daily to
maintain blood levels.

24. Which prohormones are best used in a bulking cycle and what kind of gains can I expect?

Most people prefer the combination of 1-test and 4ad. This is a tried and true stack combination and most people seem to gain the best from it. Adding 1,4andro is also common to increase appetite and may help gains. How much one will gain off a cycle depends on your diet and training but gaining 10lbs in 4 weeks is quite common.

25. Which prohormones are best for a cutting cycle?

Most commonly, people will use non-aromatizing hormones such
as 1-test or DHT precursors to act as an anti-catabolic and increase hardness. However, low doses of 4ad may help, and adding 1,4andro can also be beneficial.

[DutchMuscle]

26. Is it okay to drink alcohol while taking prohormones?

No, it is a really poor idea to drink while doing bodybuilding/weight lifting in general, but taking them while using prohormones is even worse. Taking large amounts of prohormones, especially orally, can cause increased liver stress.
When you add alcohol into the equation it is a potential for disaster. If you have to drink, try to do it moderately and take milk thistle and/or ALA to help combat potential problems. Although, it would be best to avoid it completely.

28. Can I overdose on prohormones?

Possibly, if you are taking over a gram to two grams a day orally then it could cause some liver strain or stomach discomfort – it will also probably increase the side effects of the hormone. You should never go over 2 grams daily for prohormones, you will not see anymore gains, the side effects will probably be unbearable and most likely the enzymes
will be saturated for them to be effective.

29. I can’t grow! Should I use prohormones?

No. Anyone should be able to grow naturally without
the use of prohormones; prohormones merely speed up the process. If you can’t grow naturally, please post your diet, training and supplement routine for review. Most likely, you are making some errors—so please try and correct these basic issues before you resort to using prohormones. They are not magic and will not work without proper diet and training.

30. Can women use prohormones?

Yes, they can – but the doses shouldn’t be as high as using it for men. Using less androgenic hormones like Nordiol or 1,4andro is
recommended above the others and no anti-estrogen is needed post cycle. I would recommend using nordiol at 300mg daily or 1,4andro 300mg daily for 2-4 weeks and tapering off the dosages slowly towards the end and possibly using tribulus extract post cycle.

31. When's the best time to take oral prohormones and should I take them with food?

You want to take them in divided doses through the day, the standard is 3 doses 3 times daily. Taking them with food is optional, but if you take them with a high fat meal they can help absorption. Also keep hydrated (you should be doing this anyway) so as to avoid a burning sensation when urinating, as experienced with some prohormones.
Most prefer to take them preworkout to give them a little extra boost.

32. Can I be drug tested for prohormones?

Since prohormones convert into active anabolic compounds, it is the concern of some that they will be tested for in a drug test. The answer is almost always no, they will not show up in a drug test. Drug testing for anabolic steroids is very expensive and has to be asked for specifically. So, unless you are on probation for steroid use, or are a professional athlete, you will not be tested for prohormones/steroids. Also,
since most prohormones have very short half lives, they will clear out of your system within a matter of days. General drug tests only test for opiates, ampetamines, cocaine and marijuana. However, if you are planning to join the military, or a sports organization that bans the use of these substances, it would be in your best interest to avoid them.

[DutchMuscle]

Thinking of Using
Prohormones?

I really hate to write out another preacher post, but I feel it just has to be done. This is a total rant on my part, so please keep that in mind while reading this.

I am bombarded daily with the same questions over and over. These people ademantly refuse to follow any sort of advice or guidelines to using prohormones. Some of this can also be used for steroids and in fact most supplements in general for beginners. So, lets get started.

Eligibility of using Prohormones

Using prohormones is not for everyone. In fact, most people shouldn't use prohormones. I am not going to make the call for people to whether or not one should be able to use prohormones, because that is not my place. What I am suggesting is a general guideline to make sure you are
ready for using prohormones as an individual, and as a bodybuilder. So, here are the rules:

1) If you have been training for less than a year YOU
SHOULD NOT USE PROHORMONES. This is very simple. You need to have some experience in proper training behind you before you start supplementing with exogenous hormones. There is no reason to use them at this point in time, you can make great gains naturally.

2) If you are under 21 YOU SHOULD NOT
USE PROHORMONES. This argument I have with people everyday. I tell people "You should not use prohormones under 21." Always the response is "Okay, so what prohormone would be the safest?". WRONG ANSWER, you should not be using prohormones!!! It is that simple. There is not a "safest" one for you, there are none. I am sick and tired of crybaby teenagers asking me how to use prohormones. Go pick up some creatine and leave prohormones for someone else. Still not convinced? Read this: href="http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175713"
target=_blank>Teenagers and Prohormones/Steroids

3) If you do not eat sufficient calories (ie: 6 meals a day) to gain naturally YOU SHOULD NOT USE PROHORMONES. This is so important. Diet is the key to bodybuilding. You could train all you want, but if you're not eating, you're not going to add the size you want. Please, buy a cookbook, get some protein powder, do whatever it takes to get those calories.

4) If you do not get at least 8 hours of sleep at night YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. Proper rest is essential to building a better body. Probably more important than most people realize. If you are not getting enough sleep, don't waste your time with hormones.

5) If you want to drink beer, use recreational drugs, party all
the time, etc YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. If you are drinking more than once a week, don't waste your time. You need to make a determination for yourself what your goals are. If your goals are to be drunk everyday, then more power to you. But don't take prohormones in the misguided since that they will help you stay "anti-catabolic" or some bullshit. I know its hard when your friends want to go and drink all the time, but sometimes you have to make a choice.

6) If you have a previous medical condition such as heart
problems, diabetes, enlarged prostate, or other potential life threatening
ailments YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. We have no clue about the long term effects of prohormones. People who use them are using them at their own risk in hopes of bettering themselves, but making muscle should not make you at risk for killing or seriously injuring yourself. Take a step back and decide what is more important to you: your long term health, or some muscle?

7) If you are concerned about potential side effects from estrogen or DHT YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. This is more for the people who say "what is the best prohormone without side effects?". Very dumb question. There is no such thing. Estrogen and DHT play a major role in gains, and if you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be using these substances. Part of the enjoyment of using prohormones should be understanding how they work in your body, so you can taper them for your own needs. If you say "I'm scared of estrogen" then don't use prohormones. All of them can potentially increase estrogen. Sorry, thats just the way it is. You can always take ancilleries, but if you are asking this question, you obviously didn't know that.

8 ) If you can only buy stuff from GNC YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. Get a credit card, genuis. Ruin your credit? Find a site that excepts money orders.
There is absolutely no excuse for shopping at GNC. Don't complain that you can't order stuff from the internet because you live in Siberia or ruined your credit, or your mommy won't let you use her credit card. Either buy them from a reputable online company or don't buy them at all. You will get stuck with a shitty product or pay so much damn money, you might as well just go get pec implants.

9) If you weight 150lbs or under YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING
PROHORMONES. You have not gained enough naturally yet, or have enough experience in diet or training to justify exogenous hormone use. Please review your diet and training.

If you have to say the following things to
justify your use of prohormones, you should not be using them:

I cannot
eat enough because of _______.
I cannot train properly because of
_______.
I cannot get enough sleep because of _______.
I am younger than
21.
I am concerned about the _______ side effect of prohormones, so I want to
use something that is free of side effects.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING
PROHORMONES

I feel for you, and understand your situation, but the
fact remains. Just because you are trying to accomodate your poor workouts and
diet with prohormones is not going to work. Learn how to eat, sleep, and workout
properly FIRST.

Now, if you have passed the first part, you are doing
good. You make the bare minimum to qualify for using prohormones.
Congratulations, have a cookie.

Planning your cycle

This is the next important part of using prohormones.
Don't run out to GNC and buy the first bottle that says "Testosterone Booster" on the label, or what your buddy at the gym said he took to get "jacked up". Don't be a dumb consumer. Read up, and figure out what you want. Don't get stuck on one thing or another just because you heard it was good, or you are scared of
a certain side effect. Read through this site, and others looking for feedback on particular products. This is also key: UNDERSTAND HOW STEROID HORMONES
WORK. Please read about how people plan steroid cycles, and how steroid hormones work in the body. Prohormones are just precursors to steroids, so we try and plan cycles out similar to them. Read all you can. Take the time out to learn what you put in your body and how its going to effect you. Don't be a neglegent idiot and take something without understanding it, because you will reap the consequences. Maybe not now, or even if you do cycles later, but something will happen. It always does.

So, here are the rules for using prohormones properly.

1) Plan out your cycle before you purchase. If you
just run out and buy something for the sake of buying it, you are going to get stuck with using it. A lot of people come to me and ask "How can I use 100mg of nordiol caps?" The answer is simple. You can throw them in the garbage or sell them on eBay. Don't waste your time with very low dose orals or products containg andro, 5AD or DHEA. Also, don't use products that contain herbs like tribulus or chrysin. They are not effective at doing shit except draining your wallet. Stick with well known, good products. If you were thinking of buying a product like that, stop and go back over the first part of the post or read the
href="http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134272#post1472640"
target=_blank>Prohormone FAQ.

2) Buy some Nolvadex. This is simple.
Buy some Nolvadex. Can't get it? Don't use prohormones. Very simple. The reasons for having this available to you should be obvious. If you don't know why you need Nolvadex, you shouldn't be using prohormones.

3) Decide which side
effects concern you most, and plan your cycle around that. Concerned with hairloss? Use nordiol. Concerned with prostate enlargement? Use nordiol.
Concerned with acne? Hey, I hear if you go to the grocery store they have this great new stuff called SOAP. If you have serious acne and can't stand any more, don't use prohormones. Starting to get the picture?

If you want to use a compound void of most side effects, nordiol is your best bet. 1,4andro is the next best. It's really easy to get caught up in being scared by side effects, but if you understand how steroid hormones work, you will realize that there are no such things as side effects, they are just mechanisms of the hormones.
Buy ancilleries for side effects you are concerned about. Such as spironolactone for hair loss, or Nolvadex for estrogen problems.

4) Always use 4AD on a
cycle. But you just said if I was concerned about side effects to use nordiol--
SHUT UP!
Always use 4AD on a cycle, even if its a small amount. Some
people are going to disagree with me here, but this is the best way to use
prohormones. Plan your cycle around 4AD like a steroid user will do a cycle around testosterone. Same principle, applies here also.

5) Plan your diet
and training around your prohormone use. Plan ahead, decide what you're going to eat and how you're going to train. This is pretty obvious to most, since they want to get the most out of their prohormones.

Well, thats about it.
Remember: you don't have to use prohormones. You can make gains without them, in fact you can make gains quickly without them if you dedicate yourself to doing it. Don't jump into prohormones without all the knowledge you can get.

[Crono]

you can translate the text with google ;P

i think not much people want to read it in english

[DutchMuscle]

Sorry for that bro..but english isn't that hard to read.

[Edelweiß]

LoL but this is a german Forum, and nobody wants to read the text in english!

And DutchMuscle, german isnt that hard to write

[DutchMuscle]

Hahaha... and when you're watching the upcoming mr Olympia it has to be 'nachsynchronisiert' Come on guys...

Gr Dutch

[Vader]

Ich habe ihn zwar nicht ganz durchgelesen, eher stichprobenweise überflogen , aber ich habe einen ausgezeichneten Eindruck von diesem Beitrag, und denke, dass alles gesagt wird, was zum Thema gesagt werden muss. Er verdient meiner Meinung nach das attribut "Wichtig". Was denken die Mods dazu?

[mama67]

zum einen werden wir keinen englischen text auf "wichtig" setzen, da ihn nicht jeder lesen kann. zum anderen ist der text schon etwas alt und lücken/fehlerhaft, speziell im bereich konvertierung.
der wichtigste punkt aber ist: PROHORMONE SIND SCHEISSE!!!! UNSINNIGE GELDVERSCHWENDUNG!!! wir setzen sch.... nicht auf wichtig!!!
sollten die mod-kollegen anderer meinung sein, kann das natürlich auch anders laufen.
mama

[°HC°]

ne ne bin der selben meinung!

[Vader]

Das glaube ich! Allerdings denke ich, dass eine aktualisierte Abhandlung zum Thema (in ähnlichem Umfang, am besten auf Deutsch, mit dem Hinweis auf das miserable Kosten-Nutzen-Verhältnis, etc.) oder Beiträge (mit den genannten Hinweisen) ähnlich den Steroidprofilen in der Wissensdatenbank nur nützlich sein können.

[mama67]

Vader,
da hast du sicherlich nicht unrecht! die frage ist, wer soll sich die mühe machen, diesen umfangreichen beitrag schreiben, um am schluß darauf zu verweisen, daß prohormone der absolute mist sind?!
sicherlich könnte ich den aktuellen stand zusammenfassen aber ich halte von prohormonen absolut goar nix und rate jedem ab, für diesen mist geld auszugeben.
mama

[Vader]

Ich glaube, mein Hang zur Vollständigkeit und mein Interesse für Biochemie stecken hinter meinem Vorschlag. Obwohl die relative Sinnlosigkeit von Prohormonen dedailliert aufgezeiget würde, wäre der praktische Nutzen, da habt ihr völlig Recht, ziemlich gering, da allein schon die Preise Abschreckung genug sein dürften.

[KURD123]

frage an dich mama hast du eigentlich selbst erfahrung mit dem zeug gehabt ???

[mama67]

ja. habe 4diol (das potenteste) genommen und zwar 500mg/tag. ein totaler reinfall!! hatte mir auch noch ne riesen menge besorgt, weil ich sie sehr billig bekommen habe (70% unter preis!!!).
natürlich geht die forschung im supplement-bereich immer weiter und es gibt neue mittel, die mit den ursprünglichen prohormonen nicht vergleichbar sind. ich werde bei meiner nächsten kur z.b. m-1t als booster testen. die user, die ich bisher befragt habe, klagten über müdigkeit und erkältungssymptome, aber auch über einen heftigen pump und recht vaskuläres aussehen. bei m-1t handelt es sich allerdings genau genommen um ein steroid, da es nicht umgewandelt werden muß! es ist hier natürlich auch nicht legal. vom hörensagen würde ich es so stark wie metandienon einschätzen, ohne die met-typischen wassereinlagerungen